People who know me would, I hope, consider me to be straight-talking – I call it as I see it. But I can say hand-on-heart that self-interest doesn’t particularly drive me, so I hope people read my general commentaries in that light.

But back to calling at I see it. I’m not completely bereft of all tact, but my mother always noted that I had a certain ‘sledge-hammer diplomacy’ which might from time-to-time get me into trouble. I know also that a golden rule of business is not to ‘poo-poo’ on the competition. Unfortunately the world of SEO is highly prone to suppliers making claims and setting expectations that they all too-often fail to live up to. So sometimes I shout out when I see something I don’t quite agree with.

To add some context to what will likely have you nodding your head in agreement here’s the details of a now-deleted ‘Web Check’ thread from Enterprise Ireland’s Email News list:

Hi,

One of my customers has just been throught the “web check” process
sponsored by Failte Ireland.

I must say that I found the resulting report very superficial and (in my
opinion) lacking a basic understanding of SEO.

I’d be interested in hearing the experience of any other web
professionals whose clients have availed of this service?

Al

Haven’t talked to anyone yet who has done one, but from a search on the web
there’s a few forums complaining about it.

Who’s reviewing the sites?

Tom
www.2bscene.ie

It would be interesting to see if the people doing the reviewing were
actually web professionals with a track record in SEO/web development.

Regards…jmcc
–
**********************************************************
John McCormac * e-mail: jmcc@whoisireland.com
MC2 * web: http://www.whoisireland.com/
22 Viewmount * web: http://www.hosterstats.com
Waterford * Domain Registration Statistics and
Ireland * Historical DNS Database covering
IE * over 210 million active/deleted domains.
**********************************************************

> Haven’t talked to anyone yet who has done one, but from a search on the
web
> there’s a few forums complaining about it

—

Links please?

Rgds

Richard (Red Cardinal one)

> It would be interesting to see if the people doing the reviewing were
> actually web professionals with a track record in SEO/web development.

—

You will understand that I cannot name my customer or the individual
responsible for the “web check”.

However the web page of the company involved has a Google PR of only 2
and while they say they do website development there are no links to
previous work on their site. Nor is there any mention of SEO work.

In fact some of the suggestions they made would be guaranteed to lower
Google PR.

I think if companies are going to be employed by Failte Ireland to do
this kind of “Web Check” then we are entitled to know how qualified
they are for the task.

Al

> It would be interesting to see if the people doing the reviewing were
> actually web professionals with a track record in SEO/web development.

—

http://www.tmm.ie/

Clients’ SEO is mediocre at best imho and there’s a curious lack of feedback
forms. I wouldn’t rate them for auditing.

Regards
Richard Wilson

This is the URL of another company providing the “web check ” service

http://www.key-business-solutions.ie/index.htm

>>>This is the URL of another company providing the “web check ” service

>>>http://www.key-business-solutions.ie/index.htm

—

Folks

This is an example of blatant plugging by a company – if you are going to
recommend yourselves as a supplier of a service, then come right out and say
it.

Anthony
Online-Marketing.ie (suppliers of Web Check and Digital Marketing Audit and
Online Marketing Overhauls, etc, etc ,etc !!!)

Are there multiple web check schemes in existence? The link below gives
details of one contract award I remember seeing but I get the impression
there may have been multiple phases.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/Search_View.aspx?id=AUG105910&ln=EN

I’m not sure if I am allowed to republish who won the contracts but if
anyone is interested you can easily setup a login and look for yourself.

Keith

————————————
Keith Shirley

Shercom Ltd
Ballinacarrig, Carlow, Ireland
Mobile: +353 87 9112027
Tel&Fax:+353 59 9131715

E-Mail: K.Shirley@Shercom.com
Web: http://www.Shercom.com
Blog: http://www.keithshirley.ie/blog

Keith,

If you click on the “Full Notice Text” tab the list of successful suppliers
runs to five (it was awarded on a regional basis).

Anthony, with all due respect to www.key-business-solutions.ie, I don’t
think posting a link to a website of that cailbre in this forum would do
them any good whatsoever.

(“Our designs employ the most up to date technologies in the market place” /
their Business Partners section runs to the heady heights of…. three small
local businesses… etc )

Very interesting to see the companies who won the contracts.

Maybe I’m missing something here, but their websites do not seem to
indicate significant web development or SEO experience?

Al

No surprise there.

I have seen the exact same thing with the County Enterprise Boards.

A recent ‘expert’ seminar on Search Engine Optimisation was presented
by someone whose site appears at around 120 for the term ‘Search
Engine Optimisation’ in Google!

I’m sure they managed to pick up some business from it though…

You really would expect the organisers to do a simple credential
check, but then maybe they don’t have the knowledge or skills…

Francis
————————
www.Croan.ie
eBusiness Consulting & Design
Croan House
Dunamaggan
Co. Kilkenny

ph: 056 776 6868
m : 087 236 8555

>>>You really would expect the organisers to do a simple credential
check, but then maybe they don’t have the knowledge or skills…

—

I guess it’s down to inside knowledge. The EI eBusiness Unit did a workshop
last year in Dublin at Croke Park on SEO (and in some others parts of the
country I think?) which was excellent.

High calibre speakers who quite clearly knew exactly what they were talking
about. I was actually surprised at how good it was. I guess the challenge is
how you make that kind of expert view filter down to the county level?

P.A.

>>>I guess it’s down to inside knowledge. The EI eBusiness Unit did a
workshop
last year in Dublin at Croke Park on SEO (and in some others parts of the
country I think?) which was excellent.

>>>High calibre speakers who quite clearly knew exactly what they were
talking
about. I was actually surprised at how good it was. I guess the challenge is
how you make that kind of expert view filter down to the county level?

—

They are also running another workshop on the same topic again later this
month in the Clarion Hotel in Lucan. The panel is somewhat similar to that
of last year.

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/emarketing (link was working yesterday but
not when I just tried it now so perhaps try later)

Trevor – Searchcreations
www.searchcreations.com

Was that the very ad-hoc session where the presenters just opened the
session to the floor and answered the questions of the attendees?

It was like a break-out session in one of the smaller rooms?

Or am I thinking of a different EI event in Crokers last year?

> They are also running another workshop on the same topic again later this
> month in the Clarion Hotel in Lucan. The panel is somewhat similar to that
> of last year.
>
> http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/emarketing (link was working yesterday but
> not when I just tried it now so perhaps try later)

Only problem is that none of those speakers has a background in search.
Very difficult to leave search out of the mix these days given the
role Google plays in our lives.

Then again, maybe the panel is more about online strategy than the
tactics you should employ…

Rgds
Richard

>>>Was that the very ad-hoc session where the presenters just opened the
session to the floor and answered the questions of the attendees? It was
like a break-out session in one of the smaller rooms? Or am I thinking of a
different EI event in Crokers last year?

—

It was a little bit more structured with specific presentations in the
morning, followed by a Q and A session which was used for a podcast. There
were also break-out sessions in the afternoon so yes on both accounts except
the ad-hoc part.

>>>Only problem is that none of those speakers has a background in search.
Very difficult to leave search out of the mix these days given the
role Google plays in our lives.

>>>Then again, maybe the panel is more about online strategy than the
tactics you should employ…

—

Are we moving down the same path with these bodies of checking your sources
before engaging as 3 of the 4 speakers claim search related services on
their own websites, so if your experience is different are we back to blind
leading blind?

Rgds,
Trevor

>>>Are we moving down the same path with these bodies of checking your
sources
before engaging as 3 of the 4 speakers claim search related services on
their own websites, so if your experience is different are we back to blind
leading blind?

—

Sorry Trevor,

Am I the only one who’s struggling to work out what you’re saying? Maybe you
could re-phrase you comment so it’s a bit clearer?

P.A.

>>>Only problem is that none of those speakers has a background in search.
Very difficult to leave search out of the mix these days given the
role Google plays in our lives.

—

**Moderator Note: The comment about the forthcoming Enterprise Ireland
seminar, that nobody has a search background speaking at the conference, is
not accurate and should be clarified.

John Coburn of PraxisNow runs a search business and has considerable depth
of experience in executing campaigns and training businesses on SEO and SEM.

AMAS also has experience of search, though mainly in the context of
strategic online marketing work.

A full profile of all the speakers can be found here:

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/eMarketing/Speaker+Profiles.htm

For information on all aspects of the event visit:

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/eMarketing/default.htm

> **Moderator Note: The comment about the forthcoming Enterprise Ireland
> seminar, that nobody has a search background speaking at the conference,
is
> not accurate and should be clarified.
>
> John Coburn of PraxisNow runs a search business and has considerable depth
> of experience in executing campaigns and training businesses on SEO and
SEM.
>
> AMAS also has experience of search, though mainly in the context of
> strategic online marketing work.
>
> A full profile of all the speakers can be found here:
>
> http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/eMarketing/Speaker+Profiles.htm
>
> For information on all aspects of the event visit:
>
> http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/eMarketing/default.htm

—

I made that comment.

I’d be surprised if praxisnow are pitching themselves as an seo
company. The Coburns have been very involved in internet marketing
training, but the last time I met them I didn’t get the impression
they were positioning themselves as SEOs.

As for Amas – you’ve just stated that they are not in the search
space. If you don’t implement you surely cannot be an expert?

I think I’m pretty qualified to speak my mind on this I believe.

Richard
Red Cardinal

Just as an addendum to my last comment – I think the speakers will be
great for a general ‘doing business online’ event, I just take
exception to the fact that every event these days puts SEO in the
agenda (because it’s “hot”), but then tend not to bring in speakers
who actually work in that field.

No disrespect to the Coburns or PraxisNow, but I really hadn’t
considered them to be SEO experts.

Richard
Red Cardinal

> I guess it’s down to inside knowledge. The EI eBusiness Unit did a
workshop
> last year in Dublin at Croke Park on SEO (and in some others parts of the
> country I think?) which was excellent.

Without further details it was probably just the usual chosen few
preaching to those vaguely familiar with the field. The problem with SEO
is that any muppet can usually claim to be an expert in the field and
many do. Some of the funniest adverts in the SEO field are for people
who are, apparently, capable of reverse-engineering search engine
algorithms. Ironically many SEO people have no background in algorithmic
research and would not know what to do with a search engine algorithm if
handed one.

> High calibre speakers who quite clearly knew exactly what they were
talking
> about. I was actually surprised at how good it was. I guess the challenge
is
> how you make that kind of expert view filter down to the county level?

The county level? Forgive me but that does make you sound like some
technology journalist who hasn’t a clue beyond click and drool press
releases. Dublin is not the centre of the internet. For all us “county”
people, it is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. To us,
Dublin is merely a data centre.

It is my experience that most of the speakers at these events are there
solely to promote their own services and the level of expertise can vary
considerably. It is all too easy for these people to sound impressive
but the only true test is to judge them on the results of their work.

That crucial disconnect is the problem. To those unfamiliar with the
field, anyone with more of a clue than themselves can sound like an
expert. And in the voodoo world of SEO, the risk is even greater.

Regards…jmcc
–
**********************************************************
John McCormac * e-mail: jmcc@whoisireland.com
MC2 * web: http://www.whoisireland.com/
22 Viewmount * web: http://www.hosterstats.com
Waterford * Domain Registration Statistics and
Ireland * Historical DNS Database covering
IE * over 210 million active/deleted domains.
**********************************************************

Now at this stage I could be accused of stirring things up a little in that thread, but when I checked the link given by Trevor I saw the following:

It struck me that “Search Engine Optimisation (SEO): improving your search engine ranking.” would require a speaker with a background in SEO. So I made my comment to that effect. I didn’t disparage any of the speakers. In fact I even sent a message stating that I thought they were excellent speakers for a general event. I hope that John Coburn of PraxisNow hasn’t taken offense at any of my comments – but if so please accept my apology John.

But back to the thread… Now what happened next is one of those terrible, terrible moments that I’m sure has hit each and every one of us, and this is the head-nodding bit I mentioned earlier – sending an email to the wrong place. The following was emailed to the entire list and posted on the Lyris website:

Subject Line: [ebusiness_discussion] Web check — no further posts

Hi Aileen

From a philosophical perspective I would prefer to allow participants to the
list be as free (within the limits set out) as possible to air their
comments, views, ideas, opinion, advice, etcetera, wherever pertinent to
matters of eBusiness.

Richard is airing his opinion and putting his name to it. I would tend to
agree (personally) that his position seems somewhat one-sided and
opinionated, making the argument that he’s qualified on the basis of his own
expertise. Whilst this is arguably true, he’s obviously lacking tact to
pursue this further but that’s hardly a reason to censor him.

However, in light of your concerns and more recent posts as yet unreleased
which are, despite our best efforts, veering toward personal attacks, I’m
going to kill the whole thread. The very worst that can happen is it will
carry on its own merry way on the Open list amongst the same names and usual
suspects.

Best

Ralph

Now in full fairness to Ralph he immediately sent me a mail apologising for the above message, which he had not meant for general distribution.

But what happens next is most bizarre…

The EI Lyris website is blocked with a 403, and when the site returns the entire Web Check thread, together with the new thread containing Ralph’s email, have been deleted. No explanation, no ‘how’s your uncle’, no nada.

So what I read from this is that one Aileen O’Toole – MD, AMAS took umbridge to my comments and sought to have something done. All via back channels. I don’t think that the thread disappeared as a result of Aileen’s intervention, but I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that rather than delete the single message that went out in error the mods delete the entire thread.

I think that will be my last contribution to EI’s mailing list.